Quote from tristancliffe :

Hmmm, it would appear I did say that... It's not quite what I feel. If it wasn't for the high fidelity tracks then I don't think it would have half as many players, and more people would moan about the physics.

Not sure about that. I can't speak for the high downforce vehicles because I just don't race them much, I enjoy the slower cars a lot more. Maybe it just gives my brain a fighting chance to be fast on a circuit or something. But there's zero question in my mind that the tintops and weakling cars perform notably better (by better I mean more realistically) than in LFS. You're also on the wrong side of the pond to take full advantage of iRacing, just like I was with LFS when it was my mainstay sim-fix.

For me personally, between the graphics (both sims are over exposed and funny looking, iRacing just far far more detailed), sound, and physics I've moved mostly on to where I'm happy at the moment... Anyone compelled to rant about the development speed here (or lack thereof; which isn't factually incorrect but is unable to be affected by it's repeated forum "exposure") should just find something else fun to do for a while!

Or maybe get nVidia 3D Vision; you'll forget it drives strangely for a while because it'll at least be in 3D!

Quote from Shotglass :

yay lcd... told you people for years its a rubbish technology

Is that a TN panel thing?

Quote :

no because your eyes arent focusing in 3d
all your eyes are doing is looking more or less crosseyed
the actual focus distance of your eyes lens is always your eye to screen distance

Hmmm..

Cross eyed would only be for images in front of zero paralax though correct? You're not going crosseyed from observing something that appears behind the monitor from my understanding.

edit: I just re-read the thread, sorry I missed you talking about focal distance in the previous post. What's your thoughts then on why my eyes don't get so tired using it? I can sit here at work in 2D all day and get tired eyes, but this has gone away during gaming now that I run it in 3D mode. What you're saying makes sense though, except for the cross eyed part. My eyes simply receive two different images and my brain (hopefully) works that into a 3D perception, where does cross eyed come into play? Except for out of screen effects I can't see what going cross eyed has to do with it. But that makes sense since you will go cross eyed if you move your finger towards your nose...

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 8 Jan 2010, 21:40.

So I finally picked up my own 3D Vision kit and have had some time to play around with it more with LFS, and ... well everything .

iRacing and LFS both show the ghosting a bit because of the large contrast against simple shapes (white lines on a dark background for example). That is a monitor limitation; the monitor just isn't fast enough white to black to eliminate the ghosting sometimes. in 3D it runs only maximum brightness as well. Other than that I have no problem with LFS or iRacing, eventhough the brightness takes a hit I don't find it big enough to bother me.

I had a question though Shot, since your eyes are continually refocussing anyway, isn't depth of field irrelevant? I mean... don't you have true DOF just by the very nature of observing in 3D? Objects that are not in my focal range don't look in focus to me because I'm not looking directly at them... I've actually found this system to be less straining on my eyes after prolonged use, and I attribute that to the fact that my eye muslces are not locked at a 50cm distance, but have to actually refocus continually like they're supposed to.

Very happy with the kit so far overall... 8/10.

Quote from tristancliffe :

(and racing sims if there were any good ones to play that didn't cost as much as a season of real racing ...

:rolleyes:
Quit being a goof. But at least you finally admitted it's good!

Quote from jrs_4500 :

The point of this thread ... to have fun watching you all duke it out.

So you're a self proclaimed troll; duly noted - thanks. Like it wasn't obvious.

There's 16 people that've bickered about combos in this thread who live in similar time zones & are guaranteed to have similar personal schedules?

Anyway, even when LFS was in it's heyday it was the same combos just even more lemmings running them, so it's a moot point.

Sigh, ok I'll bite.

What's your beef this time Shot?

Everything I've tried so far (which is limited) w/ 3D Vision is pretty impressive actually. I would imagine that with a new 60" 120Hz TV it would be very much so. WoW is great, CoD is great, iRacing looks good...

Quote from Bob Smith :

*raises arm*

Haven't watched TV by myself in years

This.

I can waste more than enough time without the boob tube, I don't know where yall find the time for that. I don't have cable right now, and won't have it in the forseeable future.

Hey Sean, interesting post.

To be honest I find LFS moving away from being a raw sim into something that provides a lot of useless features. I realize and hope that will change with the tire physics modifications, but if you look at the number of "simple" things which could have been implemented by now compared to the number of useless shit that's been worked on (subjectively speaking of course; I concede before you begin) it's making this a limp sim.

Nuno had this right ages ago and I didn't beleive him because I wasn't privy to the inside scoop - LFS really had become pussy 4 years ago. It started as the most hardcore, realistic, no holds barred sim that was made at the time and it attracted most of the old timers here for that reason. Since then it has stagnated into the most tragic, potential filled dry orgasm of a sim ever made and it's a waste of all that time.

This allowed iRacing to limp along with a millions budget and toy around for a few years before they're about to get serious and blow everything to hell and back. Odd to see the rocket I once cheered for degenerate into a firecracker and fizzle into a few patches of a track here, a transmisson sim added more than a year earlier, and blah - who really cares what happens on a yearly scale. I used to visit here on a daily basis knowing there was a chance of some interesting shit happening, those days have long passed.

LFS will always have the niche of bang for the buck - at least for the next couple of years. After that, it's all grey and a dream may have taken on the form of a pipe by that time.

MSN me if you wish to yatter further, it's good to hear from you again


PS: On a better note, I get to take my wife to see Muse in March

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Sun 20 Dec 2009, 07:30.

Indeed that puzzles me as well StableX. Going back to LFS afterwards felt like I was just turning something stiff for no reason most of the time. Don't me wrong, I've always liked LFS' feed back and I think it's done well, but I get the same plus far more information from the feedback in iRacing.

Quote from Postman Pat :

It' s annoying that other sims seem so unsatisfactory after just a month's trial of iRacing.

Agreed, everything thing else is ruined for me despite iR's current shortcomings

Quote :

Question is though: how much of this is just the bumps on tracks that give the sense of speed and immersion? After all, this is apparently what Dave Kaemmer said (from the transcript of the iRacing court case against a Nascar Racing 2003 modder):

"The question that was asked of DK was very simple, "How much of the original NR2003 code remains in the iRacing software?"
DK responded with, "I do not know exactly, but I estimate 65% is unaltered NR2003 code"
Tim R's lawyer asked, "So why do you state as little as 1% to the media and on your own site?"
DK responds with, "We tell the public and media a different number"
Tim R's lawyer asked, "Why would you do that?"
DK responds with, "We do not want our customers to know or they may not buy our product".

http://www.thepits.us/board/vi ... &t=15174&start=15

That said, the cars feel pretty good to me.

But IMO, that quote doesn't inspire confidence nor does it feel good investing in a dishonest, largely money grabbing operation.

Indeed, although I understand their decision. But really, how much of the sim is tire code for example? Most of the public wouldn't realize that the tire models and other parts of the physics were rewritten from almost scratch - how much of the 65% of old code would be things like rendering, sound & interface things and so forth.... it's sort of a moot point that percentage which is why they felt compelled to not be up front about it.

Whatever the case, it's a damn good sim.

Tristan did you give the Skippy and the Solstice a go? How did you find them? I kind of wonder if you thought they were good so you're not saying anything .

I downloaded the C6 last night for something to do... You guys who commented really didn't do the sound justice! :jawdrop:

I cranked up the speakers and my face hurts from permasmile at this point... Now I know where Tiff Needel's enthusiasm comes from. Lower RPMs convey the intense grunt of that engine, you can feel every exhaust pulse rattling through your carcass (at least with a reasonable audio setup & a subwoofer of some type) and the high RPMs felt like they pierced my soul .

I've never been dissatisfied really with the sound in iRacing (save for the Mazda, no idea who's responsible for that one) but the C6R is on a whole new level both dynamically and in terms of the raw quality of the sound. The frequency response of whatever device they used to capture it is fantastic. Very easily the best engine sound I've ever heard in any game or sim, ever. Headphones is good, but a cranked set of speakers and subwoofers is rather mindblowing.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Tue 1 Dec 2009, 19:20.

If you set it up the way Android said, the wheel rotation scale will always match the in-game cars - 720 for road, 540 for GTRs and so forth. That way you always get the intended experience by default.

Shotglass.

Yeah I thought about the same with with Jim Carey too - I've seen him in movies that show he can actually be someone other than a complete goofball. He actually can be a pretty good actor when he wants to be. I think he just used to get pigeon holed a lot when his main forte was flavour of the month.

You could say that about the vast majority of actors nowdays. They're not acting in the sense that they're portraying someone else very well at all, I can only think of a handful of actual actors that can truly accomplish this - becomming someone they're not when on film. Heath Ledger, Anthony Hopkins... people that could take on almost any role and make it authentic.

Most actors today seem to think acting just means "them acting as if they were in the portrayed circumstances". Big difference from actually playing a role! Real acting is generating a personality that is totally NOT who you really are and making it real to the audience.

Seems like the general public just has to buy into someone's default personality, not the acting ability of said person and they'll be successful. A real actor can play both a hero or a villain, stupid, brilliant & so forth beleivably.

All this being said I do think Will Farrell is funny sometimes. My wife on the other hand does not agree.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

It seemed like the appeal of Kid was in waiting to see what kind of colourful language he'd invoke next to describe his overwhelming and intense dissapointment with whatever it was he was fixated on at the time.

Precisely!

When it came to LFS he generally did have a clue what he was ranting about though.

He began to move away from the "all other sims are tripe" stance near his implosion though, he saw iRacing coming and publicly called Scawen out a lot shortly before his ban.

Read the thread and you'll see.

But apart from that....

How much free time did someone have to find this thread?

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'm hoping to get another go on this at the weekend - Solstice you say? Bit disappointed that the single seaters are awful, but will see what the tintops are like.

Shame I can't play online, but that's the nature of the game.

Unless there is a revelation over the weekend, I shan't be renewing my licence for another year or two, and I will continue to state that iRacing is overpriced and under-realistic. Fingers crossed.

Fair enough.

But implore you, since you've taken the time to redownload iR and give it a shot, in addition to the Solstice you really should give the Skip Barber car a fair shot. The feedback is great; you can feel the ruts & imperfections in the track surfaces and it's a real raw driver's car - a blast to drive. If you're going to re-evaluate the sim in it's current state, you owe it to yourself to test that car out as well.

If you think the Solstice and Skippy are rubbish, I'll never bug you again. I'd be really surprized though. I'm even tempted to say I'd reimburse you if you honestly thought the Skippy was a poorly simulated car But I won't say that because surely you can part with the pocket change it costs

When you drive the Solstice, I suggest that at some point you deliberately overdrive it to the point where you crash. iRacing does a splendid job of making driving on the limit feel a bit dangerous, and if I lose it I actually dread the impact a little because for some reason it feels quite visceral. Seems like something violent just happened in comparison to the same situations in the current LFS. I know the point of a sim is not to crash, but this does add to the experience.

I wish the Solstice was the turbocharged version though. Then I could race that and the skippy and be content for the next year

Quote :

bunch o lazy ****s if u ask me. Could they spare five minutes to code a kick/ban option for server admin, nope they decide thats to much like hard work & give us a few 'pointless words' in some vain attempt to sort out an really simple issue.

way to go iRacing......

Of course, the only reason private racing is even an option is because they were too lazy to add it at the request of the community right?

So lazy in fact that they push out content and updates at breakneck pace compared to anything you'll find around here (simply due to physical limitations that is).

iRacing has shortcomings no doubt, and some of them major; laziness really doesn't appear to be one of them however.

I think you'd have to be pretty damn driven to try and innovate in the sim market, and indeed actually GENERATE a market where one doesn't really exist to justify the expenses involved.

Quote :

Originally Posted by DaveWS
Very interesting to have your input as always Todd, thanks. Could I ask how KartSim is going?

Nevermind Kartsim, I want the inside scoop on Racing Legends!

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Tue 17 Nov 2009, 18:50.

Quote from UncleBenny :

You know, as much as people complain about the development speed here at LFS, at least when Scawen does something, he does it right the first time and doesn't half-ass it through three builds until he gets it right. I have to give him credit for that.

This is a good point, but one thing is that although those are knee-jerk reactions on the part of iRacing, I gaurantee they're not final solutions. It's really more them saying that they acknowledge the problem(s) and putting in temporary band-aid until they resolve it properly. Whether or not it's effective is almost a moot point because it's probably more to show their alignment and future intentions on certain issues. I'd take that over silence any day

Quote from DaveWS :

I keep saying inertia purely because that's how it feels. If it's hard to get wrong then I guess we must give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they've modelled that correctly.

So then your beef seems to be when the tires are able to provide enough force to overcome a change in direction already in progress. They are therefore too responsive under certain circumstances in your opinion.

I wonder why that is or if LFS's constant sliding around (currently) has influenced your instincts? I really can't say to be honest. I installed LFS again recently in anticipation of the new tire model being released. I had a go today with the XRT at BL1 for quite some time. I really was a bit surprized how fluffly it really is, I had to retrain myself quite a bit after driving the Solstice so much.

I hear what you're saying about inertia I just don't see how they could mess up something that obvious. The C6R really isn't a heavy car; it weights less then my Hyundai Elantra by a fair amount (!). Seems reasonable to me that a car lighter than my compact with super fat slicks would act like it's on rails and have a lot of mechanical grip alone, nevermind adding some downforce to it. It's not just the car's inertia that matters, really it's the ability of the car to overcome it's own inertia... Racing vehicles are designed to do that as top priority right?

I agree that the solstice and skippy are extremely convincing. Therefore I would say the problem (if there really is one, I'm not convinced there is either way at this point) probably has to do with downforce & load sensitivity (really just the latter). You don't seem to have any beef with non downforce cars... how do you feel in the Lotus and/or the DP?

Tristan regarding iR - what's your thoughts on the Solstice, or have you given it a fair go?

I really wish the Skippy was basic content, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on that car specifically.

I haven't really set foot in the Radical or the Mazda, I'm all about the non-downforce cars.

Your quote mentioned nothing about the shift light...

Is that so? Didn't know that. When was it changed? The last version of LFS I had installed still operated this way.